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Is Suicide ganking real PvP

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Sasha Azala Blood and Decay 256	Posted - 2012.04.22 22:45:00 - [1] - Quote Karn Dulake wrote: I dont know to be honest but would the statement below class as PvP "Opening up on that Hulk knowing that it will be blown to pieces unless Concord arrives in time" Thanks for your Imput PvP is combat between players and in suicide ganking there is no two way exchange, which is why I don't see it as PvP.
Sasha Azala Blood and Decay 256	Posted - 2012.04.22 23:16:00 - [2] - Quote Below is how I've always understood what PvP is and not all the other arguments people put forward altered to suit their argument. 'Player versus player was coined sometime in the late 1980s to refer to the combat between players that resulted in the loser being penalized in some way.' wikipedia
Sasha Azala Blood and Decay 256	Posted - 2012.04.22 23:27:00 - [3] - Quote Corina Jarr wrote: Sasha Azala wrote: Below is how I've always understood what PvP is and not all the other arguments people put forward altered to suit their argument. 'Player versus player was coined sometime in the late 1980s to refer to the combat between players that resulted in the loser being penalized in some way.' wikipedia Considering it is CCP's game, only their definition really matters, not some arbitrary Wiki one. Same with exploit. CCP's definition of it differs from what most would consider, but that is what they decide it means. Some people would have you believe that playing the market and competition for the same resoucre (ie. node/roid) is PvP, if that was the case then there would be no PvE MMOs. An exploit is generally playing the game in a way that was not intended. So CCP have every right to decide what an exploit is in EVE.
Sasha Azala Blood and Decay 256	Posted - 2012.04.22 23:38:00 - [4] - Quote Corina Jarr wrote: Sasha Azala wrote: Corina Jarr wrote: Sasha Azala wrote: Below is how I've always understood what PvP is and not all the other arguments people put forward altered to suit their argument. 'Player versus player was coined sometime in the late 1980s to refer to the combat between players that resulted in the loser being penalized in some way.' wikipedia Considering it is CCP's game, only their definition really matters, not some arbitrary Wiki one. Same with exploit. CCP's definition of it differs from what most would consider, but that is what they decide it means. Some people would have you believe that playing the market and competition for the same resoucre (ie. node/roid) is PvP, if that was the case then there would be no PvE MMOs. An exploit is generally playing the game in a way that was not intended. So CCP have every right to decide what an exploit is in EVE. You haven't played WoW or ToR have you? You can go the entire game on a PvE server without ever interacting with a person. You sound like you've never played WoW much either, there is competition for resources and they do have a market where there is undercutting. Although when I left WoW they had made resources easier to get. It seems people with say practically anything is PvP these days. Never played ToR but played WoW (about 5 years) plus others MMOs, usually have at least 2 MMOs active.
Sasha Azala Blood and Decay 264	Posted - 2012.04.23 00:58:00 - [5] - Quote Kengutsi Akira wrote: Sasha Azala wrote: Some people would have you believe that playing the market and competition for the same resoucre (ie. node/roid) is PvP, . Youre aware the Devs are some of those ppl yes? Does not mean they're right just because they're Devs. The difference is that PvP was coined to mean a certain thing (as quoted earlier in an earlier post). So although other activities can be seen as being a form of player v's player it does not make them PvP.
Sasha Azala Blood and Decay 264	Posted - 2012.04.23 01:11:00 - [6] - Quote Ai Shun wrote: Sasha Azala wrote: The difference is that PvP was coined to mean a certain thing (as quoted earlier in an earlier post). So although other activities can be seen as being a form of player v's player it does not make them PvP. Or the definition has evolved from when it was coined as the games became more complex than they were 30 years ago ... In the end though, both players made choices before that engagement that led to the combat being initiated and over before the other player could respond. That still fits the definition of PvP even if you cut it as finely as you prefer to do. Except if we look at it your way that means any MMO that has resources or a market is a PvP game without even needing to fire a shot.
Sasha Azala Blood and Decay 264	Posted - 2012.04.23 01:31:00 - [7] - Quote Ai Shun wrote: Maybe once more players realise that EVE is PVP through and through we'll see less whine threads Except EVE is not PvP through and through regardless of what some people would have you believe. But EVE is a PvP game as that is one of the main focuses of the game.
Sasha Azala Blood and Decay 264	Posted - 2012.04.23 01:53:00 - [8] - Quote Ai Shun wrote: Sasha Azala wrote: Except EVE is not PvP through and through regardless of what some people would have you believe. But EVE is a PvP game as that is one of the main focuses of the game. All of EVE, with the exception of ship spinning, involves competition between players. And even spinning has a counter so you can compare yourself against other players if you really wanted to be competitive. EVElopedia - 'PvP activities are a major feature of EVE Online'. I would agree with EVElopedia, as EVE has PvE elements as well.
Sasha Azala Blood and Decay 265	Posted - 2012.04.23 02:31:00 - [9] - Quote Ai Shun wrote: Sasha Azala wrote: EVElopedia - 'PvP activities are a major feature of EVE Online'. I would agree with EVElopedia, as EVE has PvE elements as well. Going by the EVElopedia glossary of terms then: EVElopedia wrote: PvE (initial) Player vs EVE or Player vs Environment. Combat vs NPCs. PvP (initial) Player vs Player. Combat or competition vs other players. So the question then is; what happens when another player is engaged with the same NPCs? What happens when you refine the items you have looted or salvaged from the NPCs and sell them? Or use them to manufacture products and sell them? Yeah, that's also the same problem with PvE games and it does happen. Which is why this whole PvP/ PvE classification seems to a bit of a mess. If you stuck to the wikipedia version of PvP that I posted earlier it at least makes more sense (plus the way I've always known it to be). Otherwise you're left with both PvE and PvP (depending on the game) both having PvP and PvE elements. In which case the PvP and PvE classification of a server must just rest on a main feature of the game (which is easily possible). It would however cheapen what PvP used to stand for. But if we can't agree on what PvP is then we definetly won't be able to agree on an answer to the question of this thread.
Sasha Azala Blood and Decay 265	Posted - 2012.04.23 02:52:00 - [10] - Quote Another way of looking at this is, if market trading and resource hunting was to be PvP then both PvP and PvE servers would share that PvP component. So those do not define if it's a PvP or PvE server. So the only thing that defines if a server is PvP or PvE would be combat, and people do associate PvP with combat.

Sasha Azala Blood and Decay 265	Posted - 2012.04.23 02:59:00 - [11] - Quote Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote: Sasha Azala wrote: Below is how I've always understood what PvP is and not all the other arguments people put forward altered to suit their argument. 'Player versus player was coined sometime in the late 1980s to refer to the combat between players that resulted in the loser being penalized in some way.' wikipedia Considering it is CCP's game, only their definition really matters, not some arbitrary Wiki one. Odd considering Sasha Azala wrote: Does not mean they're right just because they're Devs. Devs = CCP you just contradicted yourself player A has a Hulk player B is a suicide ganker player B combats [b]player A resulting in the [b]penatly of the loss of his Hulk By your own definition (if we're even going by that one and "not some arbitrary Wiki one") it is PVP /thread Except you've misquoted me.
Sasha Azala Blood and Decay 265	Posted - 2012.04.23 03:32:00 - [12] - Quote I think no matter what anyone says we're unlikely to agree and on that note I'm going to get some sleep.
Sasha Azala Blood and Decay 266	Posted - 2012.04.23 09:34:00 - [13] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Ganking is to pvp as mugging an old lady in the street is to street fighting A much more sensible and lucrative career choice? I think Concord should blow up the pods of suicide gankers as it's not really suicide unless the clone dies. Suicide ganking is not really a career choice for some it's just for laughs, if it was true suicide ganking then it would be a short career.
Sasha Azala Blood and Decay 266	Posted - 2012.04.23 09:56:00 - [14] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Sasha Azala wrote: Malcanis wrote: Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Ganking is to pvp as mugging an old lady in the street is to street fighting A much more sensible and lucrative career choice? I think Concord should blow up the pods of suicide gankers as it's not really suicide unless the clone dies. Suicide ganking is not really a career choice for some it's just for laughs, if it was true suicide ganking then it would be a short career. Wouldn't it be simpler to get rid of CONCORD, then it could just be proper, normal, realistic piracy. Getting rid of CONCORD would just turn high-sec into a PvP zone/griefing zone and a lot that play the game would simply stop playing the game. I don't think it'll attract that many newer players. I do agree though the system as it is, is too artifical and needs some kind of overhaul. I hope they do a good job with changing FW.
Sasha Azala Blood and Decay 266	Posted - 2012.04.23 10:14:00 - [15] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Sasha Azala wrote: Malcanis wrote: Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Ganking is to pvp as mugging an old lady in the street is to street fighting A much more sensible and lucrative career choice? I think Concord should blow up the pods of suicide gankers as it's not really suicide unless the clone dies. Suicide ganking is not really a career choice for some it's just for laughs, if it was true suicide ganking then it would be a short career. Alas, the crew are not so fortunate. Into the realms of RP We have a crew? I thought the ships were fully automated and we were just the processor in the machine.